Of course we must put work we’re proud of into the world. Thank you, Sari. There are so many gatekeepers we have to get our work in front of and then they tell us if the work is worthy or not. I feel I’m outsourcing my confidence. How lovely that you’ve built a strong community to share your good work and that of others. And you know what? There is nothing wrong with being “thirsty.” We do the work and we want to share. We should be bold!
I appreciate this honesty and exposure to having internalized self imposed misogyny as a Gen Xer as part of growing up. We got a lot of confusing messages! It’s great to be a witness to its untangling and feel proud of our hard work. I support you.
I think a mistake is made to qualify misogyny as centered around Gen-X people. It is centuries old, and as we all know, continues to this day. Misogyny tends to appear personal, but it is not. It is layered deeply into the bowels of society. However, fighting back requires each of us stepping up each time.
I hear you on the internalized shame! Very helpful to know others confront the same inner demons. I wonder about misogyny as the culprit, though. I feel like that focus has left me open to the daggers women merrily throw at each other out of envy and spite. I think we have an instinctive urge to keep other women in line just as surely as hens peck each other into compliance, and shame is our primary weapon. I wish I'd realized that sooner.
As Gen-Xers we are soooo conditioned to downplay our accomplishments. I can't tell you how much not asking for attention has lost me. Thanks for sharing your story and for this incredibly true insight. Babs forever!
She writes about promoting your work: “Your shyness about telling your story or writing your book is not humility; it’s hoarding.” I also think of it as if I’m in partnership with a publisher or publication and I don’t share my work I’ve done in collaboration with them, I’m letting them down and doing myself a disservice. Sometimes that makes sense if I’m not happy with or proud of the final result, but if I am, I try to follow this advice.
“No one loses if Streisand works hard, demands that others do, and puts out her own star vehicles for people to enjoy (or not enjoy, or never watch if they prefer)“
When I saw the title of this post, I immediately thought of that summer listening to Barbra over and over again. I hope she somehow sees your post and hears the regret you have expressed about the way that article came out. Working in a male-dominated field makes me truly appreciate what she had to do to make her art. She truly is a "Sweet Inspiration".
I hope so, too, Lisa! And, yeah, I appreciate her—and all she’s done in fields that are hostile to women—more than ever before. <3 (I thought of you as I was writing this, obviously…)
Oh boy, do I get this! Growing up in the '60s and '70s I totally bought into the "be demure, be sweet, be quiet" tape recording inside my head. Apparently I hadn't noticed the feminist movement yet! It wasn't until I was in my 40s -- divorced, remarried, and FINALLY awake to my own agency -- that making a little good noise felt acceptable to me. That old tape recording still plays, but it's frayed, worn out -- and frankly, wrong! You go, Sari!
Hi again...I was so engaged in W & WWD in the 70s and 80's working in fashion. Chanel (Lagerfeld) in the early 80's about blew my mind. Must have been quite fun to be a part of that era. But this problem is endemic to women of a times and industries. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. It's crazy making
This is not heathy in any way to be (especially if we are older than 18 years old for god's sake!) to be concerned about what others will think of us at this extreme!!!! I am 70 and often have a similar experience with my Instagram and now Substack posts. Holy shit! The culture is so fucking punitive, we are like little rodents begging for a crumb, to be "liked" and approved of and not to make waves. It is a constant stress and I'm looking to break the collective fucking spelll!
I was raised in a culture where self-belittling was considered a virtue and self-promotion a flaw. That was a lie, not a sage advice. I have 25 years of working in a white male-dominated corporate culture to prove it.
Promoting your accomplishments and being humble does not have to be mutually exclusive; no one will speak on your behalf if you don't do it for yourself.
I felt very seen in your thoughts on self-promotion. And I'm a Brit, which makes it even worse!
I did the math and figured out what year that interview was. It would have been a couple of years after I'd moved to the US from Holland, for a job in Nutley, NJ. I found the casual misogyny shocking at first. Even my female colleagues participated. I'm ashamed to say that I learned to cosplay it for a few years, to the detriment and ultimate demise of my first marriage, until I turned my back on corporate life for good. I still carry shame from those years, and I'm furious at those who would bring those "good old days" back.
I can't get rid of the nagging desire to know who is the "charming and attractive young dude who’d later publish a memoir recounting all his opiate-addled fuck-ups back then, who, despite his incompetence and dependence on a cadre of women colleagues to help him write even the shortest of assignments, would only fail upwards and upwards, thanks to the adoring editor in question." There's too many of those kinds of memoirs for a google search!
Of course we must put work we’re proud of into the world. Thank you, Sari. There are so many gatekeepers we have to get our work in front of and then they tell us if the work is worthy or not. I feel I’m outsourcing my confidence. How lovely that you’ve built a strong community to share your good work and that of others. And you know what? There is nothing wrong with being “thirsty.” We do the work and we want to share. We should be bold!
100%. Thanks, Natalie.
I appreciate this honesty and exposure to having internalized self imposed misogyny as a Gen Xer as part of growing up. We got a lot of confusing messages! It’s great to be a witness to its untangling and feel proud of our hard work. I support you.
Thanks, Shelley!
I think a mistake is made to qualify misogyny as centered around Gen-X people. It is centuries old, and as we all know, continues to this day. Misogyny tends to appear personal, but it is not. It is layered deeply into the bowels of society. However, fighting back requires each of us stepping up each time.
Yes. As a both/and I can only speak from my own experience observing from the past. I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
I hear you on the internalized shame! Very helpful to know others confront the same inner demons. I wonder about misogyny as the culprit, though. I feel like that focus has left me open to the daggers women merrily throw at each other out of envy and spite. I think we have an instinctive urge to keep other women in line just as surely as hens peck each other into compliance, and shame is our primary weapon. I wish I'd realized that sooner.
Yeah, I've had women do it to me, and in turn, shamefully, I've done it to other women, most notably Barbra in this situation.
Misogyny is certainly not just the domain of men.
Sari, I love you. Thank you for this.
<3
So relate. I call it my shame cycle. I'm very familiar with now. It happens almost every time. Babs is incredible.
As Gen-Xers we are soooo conditioned to downplay our accomplishments. I can't tell you how much not asking for attention has lost me. Thanks for sharing your story and for this incredibly true insight. Babs forever!
💕
This perspective by 4 time NYT bestselling author Luvvie Ajayi Jones reframed the topic of self-promotion for me. I think it’ll resonate for you: https://www.instagram.com/p/C8H4aCXyhN1/?igsh=b2szcWo4anUxcmpw
She writes about promoting your work: “Your shyness about telling your story or writing your book is not humility; it’s hoarding.” I also think of it as if I’m in partnership with a publisher or publication and I don’t share my work I’ve done in collaboration with them, I’m letting them down and doing myself a disservice. Sometimes that makes sense if I’m not happy with or proud of the final result, but if I am, I try to follow this advice.
Thank you, Rachel. I like that perspective. I’ll check out Luvvie’s post.
“No one loses if Streisand works hard, demands that others do, and puts out her own star vehicles for people to enjoy (or not enjoy, or never watch if they prefer)“
When I saw the title of this post, I immediately thought of that summer listening to Barbra over and over again. I hope she somehow sees your post and hears the regret you have expressed about the way that article came out. Working in a male-dominated field makes me truly appreciate what she had to do to make her art. She truly is a "Sweet Inspiration".
I hope so, too, Lisa! And, yeah, I appreciate her—and all she’s done in fields that are hostile to women—more than ever before. <3 (I thought of you as I was writing this, obviously…)
Oh boy, do I get this! Growing up in the '60s and '70s I totally bought into the "be demure, be sweet, be quiet" tape recording inside my head. Apparently I hadn't noticed the feminist movement yet! It wasn't until I was in my 40s -- divorced, remarried, and FINALLY awake to my own agency -- that making a little good noise felt acceptable to me. That old tape recording still plays, but it's frayed, worn out -- and frankly, wrong! You go, Sari!
Thanks, Nancy. <3
Hi again...I was so engaged in W & WWD in the 70s and 80's working in fashion. Chanel (Lagerfeld) in the early 80's about blew my mind. Must have been quite fun to be a part of that era. But this problem is endemic to women of a times and industries. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. It's crazy making
This is not heathy in any way to be (especially if we are older than 18 years old for god's sake!) to be concerned about what others will think of us at this extreme!!!! I am 70 and often have a similar experience with my Instagram and now Substack posts. Holy shit! The culture is so fucking punitive, we are like little rodents begging for a crumb, to be "liked" and approved of and not to make waves. It is a constant stress and I'm looking to break the collective fucking spelll!
You don't have to be a Gen-Xer to have these feelings. Believe me!
Ha!
I was raised in a culture where self-belittling was considered a virtue and self-promotion a flaw. That was a lie, not a sage advice. I have 25 years of working in a white male-dominated corporate culture to prove it.
Promoting your accomplishments and being humble does not have to be mutually exclusive; no one will speak on your behalf if you don't do it for yourself.
Thank you, Yi.
I felt very seen in your thoughts on self-promotion. And I'm a Brit, which makes it even worse!
I did the math and figured out what year that interview was. It would have been a couple of years after I'd moved to the US from Holland, for a job in Nutley, NJ. I found the casual misogyny shocking at first. Even my female colleagues participated. I'm ashamed to say that I learned to cosplay it for a few years, to the detriment and ultimate demise of my first marriage, until I turned my back on corporate life for good. I still carry shame from those years, and I'm furious at those who would bring those "good old days" back.
Thanks for chiming in and letting me know you get it, John. :)
Yes, I see you, Sari.
I can't get rid of the nagging desire to know who is the "charming and attractive young dude who’d later publish a memoir recounting all his opiate-addled fuck-ups back then, who, despite his incompetence and dependence on a cadre of women colleagues to help him write even the shortest of assignments, would only fail upwards and upwards, thanks to the adoring editor in question." There's too many of those kinds of memoirs for a google search!